Episode 292 | Marquise Davon Interview

In this episode of Faces of the Future Podcast, Millz sits down with Marquise Davon for a powerful conversation on changing the narrative around Black men, navigating today's political climate, and why vulnerability is one of the greatest strengths a man can have.

Marquise also shares his journey as an educator and podcaster, discussing how he built his personal brand, the importance of community, and using your platform to create lasting impact.

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to Like, Comment, and Subscribe for more conversations with the leaders, creators, athletes, and entrepreneurs shaping the future.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Oh my god, is that the faces of the future? Jeez, what's up, man? How you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 0:05

I'm chilling, my guy. How you feeling?

SPEAKER_04 0:07

Well, you know, it's another day. I mean, I'm glad to get you back in the studio, you know. You know, so it's a long time coming. But um, what you been up to, man? It's been a minute since we I know we talking, chop it up like on social media every now and then. I see you moving and shaking, but like, where are you at right now in life?

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Um in transition is what really what I can say. Like, there's so much newness coming in, and the things that I've asked for are starting to finally like arrive in terms of different opportunities, different um deals, and professionally feeling like there's a lot of clarity happening and career, but also creatively, I'm just like, oh, this is what it means to like meet a moment, and so I know I'm in this real cool like crescendo in a really positive direction in terms of like where I want to start to end up. So yeah, transition.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

That's good. That's good. I mean, it's a good transition phase, but what's it feel like being, I guess, in things that you manifested for yourself? I know you've been doing this for a while. Like, I haven't I haven't known you for your whole journey, but I know you've been doing it since before we met. But like, what's it feel like being in it like being on stages now, hosting events, hosting gals, I've seen you looking fly, you feel me? I see I see you in the fits. What's it feel like, man? What's that what how's that feel?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Yo, gratitude, gratitude, gratitude, gratitude. I have to say, like every single time I'm just like there is a new thing, and it's also like a lot of growth for me, too, because I've been doing this for almost 10 years now. So I started back podcasting in 2017, and so to see the ways in which it has evolved, but to see the opportunities that have been presented itself. And for me, and I say that the growth part happens because me going graduated from high school, the first in my family to graduate from high school, to go to a four-year college, first person to do that, immediately got a job right after college. But I realized I just never celebrated any of those big moments. And I'm just like, all right, cool, I gotta move to the next thing because the expectation was there. So I never took time to really just sit down and smell my roses, but I really had to sit down within this last year, and I'm just like, dog, I have been uh done some um focus groups for like CultureCon, which has been cool to be on the other side of that in terms of like just planning, getting feedback, and being able to give feedback. Um, I was on Olay and Friends for multiple episodes, which has like been an awesome space to just be in the world of YouTube, which is fundamentally different from what I'm used to as a podcaster, being able to go on Revolt TV and was just like, oh, I'm sitting down with Lene Vanille at this point in time, into there hosting my first gala, which I was just like, oh, this is I like you put me on stage, it's a problem.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Give me a mic, that black man gonna move.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Right, right. And so I'm just sitting here and I'm just like, oh, there's been a back-to-back, and to know so many of these opportunities are paid, so many of these opportunities are increasing visibility. I had to sit down and just sit there.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

I was like, yo, I sat down, I'm journaling.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

I'm just like, I asked for every single one of these things of just knowing my voice means something, the world that I created actually matters. People are interested in my ideas, people are interested in the ways in which that I think, people are responding to my thoughts, and just to know, like darn near 10 years later, and people are still rocking with it, and even meeting new people each time who are just like, just thank you for what you do. And that to me is like undeniable in terms of like the kind of impact that that has on me. When they're most of the compliments I get are thank you. You've made my connection with my son better, my boyfriend better, my husband better. You made my connection with the black man in my life significantly better. For me, that's probably the ultimate compliment. So, though that's all the space that's coming into me, I have just been in a space of joy and just being like, I'm ready. I am so ready. It's been excellent. It's exciting though, because at first I used to just be like, oh, maybe I don't belong in a room, maybe I'm still a student, maybe I'm this. Nah, I need to be here, and I'm going to own the fact that I should be here.

SPEAKER_04 4:07

Right, right. And you like you have the charisma to be like on mic, to be on stage, whatever maybe. Like, and I can see your intentional with the things that you talk about. Yes. What was it always like that for you? I know you said you were the first to to graduate in your family, the first to go to college, um, things of that nature. So take me back then. Were you still doing those things before school? Or was like, what was your upbringing like?

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Upbringing, man, single parent household. I'm the middle of five kids. Um, and so I had always kind of walked to the beat of my own drum. I learned very early on what it meant for me to kind of pick a path that meant that was for me. And so probably by fourth grade, I picked up the cello. I was like, that's gonna be my thing. Cool. I was always a really smart kid, really just quiet, but did my thing. I enjoyed hanging out with my brothers, had friends growing up and all that stuff. But I remember there's a point in middle school where it's like, um, choosing to play basketball, I'm choosing to go to church, I'm choosing to do these things that frankly just did not really serve me personally. But I was just like, oh, this is a point of connection for me and my mom. She was an athlete, so to see me be able to do that, she was coming out to some more of my games type situation. But I realized like early in high school, I'm like, I'm not doing this, I'm not playing basketball for me. Right, I'm not going to church for me, I'm not doing any of this stuff for me personally. And so even if I'm thinking back to like 13-year-old marquise, I've kind of always realized I'm not living my life for somebody else. Yeah, I'm living my life for me, but I didn't know that's what I was doing at that point in time, right? And so, like, I'm just like, no, I just want to do what makes me feel good. And then I kind of realized, especially as I think around the trend of me getting older, of just being like, oh yeah, that's a rule, break it. Oh, that's a thing, bend it. Oh, that's a thing. Oh, let me just figure out how to like navigate. And so for me growing up, it was always like a question of there was no like I placed a lot of expectation on myself to be excellent, to make sure I can be the best at what I do in order to make my own rules at the end of the day. And so I think without having like my father in my life, or I met him at 24, 23. I met him right after college. Right. And so, um, yeah, so 24, 2019, yeah, I'll be 31 this year. So seven years ago, I met my father for the first time. And when you're grown up without a dad, you kind of navigate what masculinity is supposed to look like on your own type situation. So it's just a matter of like, am I gonna be the kind of son that he wants? Is this the kind of thing that would make him proud? Am I gonna be visible enough? Are all of these things are like in my mind as I am also developing, but I'm also just like, but I just also want to be happy, right? Right. And so I just knew I always kind of desired a part of my life that wanted to feel like I could make my rules, I can live the life that I desire, I can live in my purpose. And so growing up, it was it was rougher though, too, right? Like I grew up with an abusive step parent, I dealt with addiction in my household, and so all of these things make a kid nervous to like advocate for themselves and speak up because it's better. My silence was safety, right? Being quiet was safe. And so, even in those moments that I did find myself speaking up, I was reprimanded for it. And so there is also like that space where I just was compliant enough to get by without shaking the table too much. But I was like, as long as I am the best kind of kid I could be, I could at least make it through school. But that's at that point, I'm finding different outlets to not be there. So I'm at my friend's house until I have to go to bed. I choose to go work at McDonald's for all of my high school. So I'm just like doing that, all AP classes I could take, school show, which meant I'm up at 6 a.m., I leave my house by 6:45, catch that bus at 6:51, go to orchestra, catch breakfast in between, go to class, do all of that, stay at school when we dismiss at 310. I had what two hours to kill before school show rehearsal happened. I'm there from 6:30 to 9. I go home. Hey, love y'all, good to see you, go to sleep, do it over again. Friday, I closed at McDonald's. Saturday, if I didn't have rehearsal, I worked 11 to 7. Sunday worked 11 to 7. I found any reason not to be home.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Right. And so I just realized I've always lived in a space where I had to kind of compromise who I was as a person, who I was as a boy, who was who I wanted to be as a young man. And so getting to college, I knew that was my only escape. So me being an excellent student also meant I could get out of my um situation growing up. And so when I got to college, I just bloomed differently. And so just kind of getting to be myself. There's no expectation of who I'm supposed to be, no expectation of this is what Marquise is, blah, blah, blah, blah. At that point, I'm just like, all right, I'm just trying to get by. All these loans are in my name. I'm trying to do this thing. I don't know, have anybody else really to like support me in this space outside of my friends who know who's going through the same experience at the same time. Um, and so I do remember like going through that process and just realizing like college was one of the first places where I get to fully embrace who I am, who I want to be, no expectations. I get to evolve and I get to get comfortable with that version of myself. And so that meant stepping into my manhood. That meant stepping into making decisions, having to own it, having to do all of this. And from there, I just realized I'm also like just purpose-driven as I'm going through like this college experience. I've just wanted to say, like, people's just saying, Oh, you grew up in Reading, oh, you grew up in the hood. Oh, how'd you get here? Oh, you made it, oh, you made it out. So it's funny, anywhere outside of Philly, they're just like, all right, the rest of y'all country bumpkins. I said, nah, like Redding's still a little bit. Reading got some places. Yeah, it got some places. Um, but even in that, I just realized I always kind of wanted to like push back on what everybody was saying. And that's where I started my first podcast back in December of 2017. Of like, I want to rewrite the narrative of what it means to grow up in Reading, highlight the positive that's going on, talk to people, and actually get the black millennial perspective. That was something so unheard of. And people on Reading didn't know what a podcast was. There was two other podcasts in the city. Most of the things you got a radio show, that's what you're doing. Oh, okay. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. So people are still trying to figure out what this is, but it was a hyper-local podcast that got people from so many different walks of life. We had two women, two black women, two black men. I had a four-year degree, one had a two-year degree, one had a high school diploma, one didn't even finish. So you get such a breadth of experiences in that space. But I was just like, we're all experience in life. So we're talking around some pop culture, but for the most part, local news, local politics, and then we interview somebody doing something positive within the community. Boom, everybody's coming through. Superintendents coming through, mayor can mayoral candidates coming through, um, activists coming through, political organizations, education, educators, people who are running nonprofits across the board. And so we're realizing there's a hyper-local impact happening. Boom, 2018, 2019, NAACP from the local chapter awarded us on some stuff. Cool. I ended up moving to Philly 2019 unexpectedly, and then kind of built out from there. So I was just like, oh, it's time for this to evolve. So this American Negro turned into the next podcast. I'm bridging academia in the hood. I found my love of the world of education. Um and ended up just staying there. Right. Yeah. And so I just realized like my first job I was full-time social media content consultant. Cool. I was working for tech, I was making decent money for my first year out of college, right? But I had to go home. And I was just like, yeah, this is not where you're at. I just realized going home reminded me of how much I have grown and how much I have changed. And I'm just like, oh, I have to reintroduce myself to my family. I gotta reintroduce myself to everybody. And then 23 hits, but yeah, that's 2019. My dad gets out of prison. I'm sitting there just waiting. I'm I look up and I'm like, oh, that's that's my pops. I said, I'm your biological son.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Hey, how's it going?

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Um, but just not knowing what that conversation would look like. And so I just know so many expectations on what you hope your relationship with a father could look like, what you think you are, who you think you are. Do I have any qualities of who he is? I was questioned it of just like, well, where does any of this come from? And so my dad's side, he's from they're from Puerto Rico. And so I'm just like, all right, so y'all speaking Spanish. I don't know. I grew up as a black American for all intents and purposes, like, right? So there's even like a disconnect there because I have to find what is my identity in this space too, right? Like, I don't subscribe, I don't participate in the culture, but I know my family is here. And so even in that, I remember having this conversation, and again, identity is very important in terms of like who I am, being comfortable with myself. But I remember my first conversation, it's like, you hope at least you somewhat like your dad. Right, right. And my dad goes, Yo, Keith, I'm glad you are nothing like me. And I sat there, I said, huh? And so I had to think about it for a little bit because it was always something where I was just like, when you don't have him in life, he just becomes a figment of your imagination. So I'm daydreaming around what is this guy like? Who is he? I knew he was a hot head, like I knew he was an OG on the block, everybody else. I learned about my dad through different OGs and different people that are family supported. Was there like it was tough because I was just like, you all have such an idea of who he is. And I also like, excuse me, embraced it too. Um, because I was just like, oh, so okay, he deals with his mental health issues, he has bipolar two disorder. So navigating that, but he was protective, he was made sure everybody was taken care of. He he was fighting against systems of just like, nah, we need to start cash, we need to abolish cash bail, blah, blah, blah, blah, doing all this stuff. And I was like, oh, well, there's the activist. Okay, that's what I got from you. Um, but I think it was interesting for me. It was like a bittersweet thing of just being like, dang, you all experienced my dad growing up. You all experienced these different stories of him, whether it's the fighting, whether it's hit my mom talking around like that. Was my dance partner type situation, right? And you be dancing. And I'd be dancing. So it's funny because I was just like, Well, I'm a dancer. Okay, I got that. Um, but I think it would for me, it was like a bittersweet thing because I had to always have to, out of all of my siblings, the way it said, my two older siblings have a dad, I have a dad, my two younger siblings have a dad. So it was real middle child for me. Yeah, real. Um, but I thought it was um really cool in some spaces because I'm just like, oh, we are we're living two completely different lives. Like what he's doing on the street versus what I'm doing, like my masculinity was formed in this in the school system, his was formed on the street and in prison. Those are two different worlds. But we're both asking the same question of like, will my son be proud of me? Will my dad be proud of me? Right. And we both realize we're both asking these questions to each other on separate occasions. And so I remember when he got out, and for me, I had to I gotta work through it through therapy. I worked through it through therapy and stuff like that. But it was really just this question of like I had to accept like the grief of what I wanted the relationship to be and what I hoped it to be versus what it actually is. And so even though I'm hoping that this relationship is going to build and it's gonna be like, oh yeah, this is dad, this is son, this is my dad, blah, blah, blah. And I'm just like, I call him Pops.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

Because that just feels informal and safe enough for me to invest in that. Um, and it took me a while to figure out like, do I call you Geo? Do I call you dad? Do I call you Pops? What I call you Pops felt like a good middle of the ground situation. And um, I remember when he first got out, he still struggles every once in a while of just being like, you have a regimented life, you in solitary confinement confinement for eight out of the 24 years, you max out. There is no support outside of that.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

So there are still triggers he has. And I'm learning as an educator who's working with students in special education how to track some of the stuff that's going on and pay attention to little details of how he's showing up, and just knowing like nobody knew how to support him.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Everybody was excited for him. Yeah, bring him home, bring him home, bring him home. He got home, it's a completely different world. He went in 1995.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

Yeah, the world changed a whole bunch since 95.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

The whole world changed. You were just getting on earth. I quite literally. He was out, he was in jail before I was born.

SPEAKER_04 16:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Right. Um, and I just remember like that was that was tough because I was just like, all right, I'm finally my dad, I'm gonna get to know him. This is gonna be what this is. And he struggled. He would go back to jail occasionally, he would come about, go back, try to get on the straight and narrow, go back. And so it's tough because you just know that some people's lives are just being like, you're doing you're doing as much as you can with the equipment you got. But you don't sometimes it's just hard, right? To do that. And so I know I had to grieve of like, all right, I'm gonna hang out with him, I'm gonna do this, we're gonna talk all the time, we're gonna do this. And I realized I'm like, oh, I'm struggling and building out this friend, this dynamic with him. Um but I remember we were sitting down and talking, he was just like, Marquise, you are uh the only person who's given me this amount of grace, the person that does not need to give me anything. And you continue to see me and still tell me you love me and still just show up. And that for me was still difficult because there was so much anger that I'm still holding on to. And it's not anger of like being mad at him per se. It's just more so of just being like, I want you to, I see the person that you could be, but I can't live in expectation of who you could be. I gotta just accept you for who you are. And that kind of grief of humanizing somebody like that is fundamentally different. So I think I also kind of still see those moments of human in him, but also realizing like in myself, I can't also consistently adjust. It's like it's intention with like me wanting to make sure I'm living the life that I desire and the life that I want, while also realizing like part of what I want is him to be there. So it's either make the decision of just being like keep him at a healthy distance, an emotional safe distance, or embrace him, but just know what that complex and complicated relationship will look like, and if I'm also emotionally ready for that. In some spaces, I'm not. In some spaces, I also want it. So it's just like, I want my dad there, and like I'm curious, I'm navigating.

SPEAKER_04 18:15

I'm curious about that in the sense that on once on one side of the spectrum with your dad, like you're you're kind of feeling comfortable trying to like navigate that just because it's it's new territory, but like you as an educator, that's what you have to do with your students. Yes. So so the duality there, like how like why do you think it's one way versus like the other?

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Oh, that's such a good question. Um, I think also like I have a different level of compassion for kids because I realized what I did not get out of a father figure. I got through my Papa Bleeroy. Um, but that was only Summers, right? But that doesn't discount like the longest impact he had on me. But then also I realized for me, like I'm actually very sensitive when it comes to black boys in terms of how I show up, what that representation looks like, but also doing my best to show up as my full self in terms of like where some students just don't have that representation or that person at home that can do that. So I actually find myself doing my best to go hard for my dad and try to navigate that. But I my friends will tell you, Marquise, don't play about his mentees. I don't, I'm not always the best mentee in the world. Like sometimes I'll be like, now I'm busy and I'm sorry, I cannot get back to this call right now. So hey, I know you're gonna coast me out. Um, but it is also just kind of recognizing like they are trying to learn this world. And because of how I show up as my authentic self and showing up in these spaces, I just want to be a representation of what it means to give black boys permission to simply be and not have to be a man so early on in life and show them what this point of connection can look like and how we can show up and how we can support each other, and just making sure we have more emotionally intelligent boys who turn into young men and young adults, and then fathers and partners and whatever else it's gonna be. And so definitely it's tough to see what I don't have, but I think how I show up is in reaction to um what I don't have.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

Right, definitely. And then like when it comes to that, I'm curious because just taking it back to the point you said, like when you're coming up, you were trying to navigate, find yourself. Like, am I gonna be like my pops? I'm gonna be like this. Is this what masculinity is? And it shows up in your work, it shows up in like the things you talk about and how um you justify certain things in your content, or you don't justify certain things and tell people this is okay or this is not okay. Yeah, so what I guess what was the turning point in your life, or what moment made you realize this is what I want to pursue passionately, this is like my niece, this is what I want to like go after and really pursue it like at a at an all-time high.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yeah. Um his name's Mayer. I met him back in 2019. No, 2020. 2020, so pandemic. Um, I went into the classroom and it was the first, oh, it's two. Let me not do that. Tafiq and Mayer, those two students. Uh Tafik and I, we butted ahead when we first met. I said, I don't know what's going on with you. I thought you were a little conservative child. I said, What's going on here? Um, pandemic happens, and I just remember him reaching out of just being like, Marquise, I'm just, I'm confused. Like, there's so much happening in the world, and I'm just scared. I'm trying to figure out like where to put my anger. And so that's the first time where we both just kind of recognized like the power of what it meant for me to show up. Because remember, I didn't go to school for education, I went to school for broadcast journalism and theater. I was not trying to be nobody's teacher. I said F them kids immediately. Um, but I ended up quitting my job, and my best friend Amanda was like, yo, Keys, there's a job, it's residential, it's at Penn. I think you would do well with it. It does restorative justice, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so um from there, I found my passion for education, met Tafiq, and he played such a strong fixture in my life in terms of like how I would love to show up as it relates to black boys. My air definitely solidified why I do what I do. And so when I met my air, this would be three. Months after his own father passed away in prison. I'm like, oh, I just get there. At first, he tried to be cool. He's like, nah, Mr. Richards, I ain't even trying to be like that, blah blah blah. Yeah. Didn't I just showed up in class? I was consistent. I would just sit there. They play Roblox. I'd sometimes play. Cool. But he would show up each time. But he was a kid who tried to act too cool. I had all the other nerds. Cool. He was the one where they're like, all right, he got a little cool, right? Um, but for me, he just kept showing up. I was like, why you keep showing up? Nah, you cool or whatever. I like you. All right, cool. Can you come to my football game? Cool, I go to the football game. Oh, my birthday's coming up. All right, cool. So our tradition for every one of his birthdays, we go to Green Eggs cafe, uh, pay for his food. We just talk, catch up on life, let him vent about some stuff going on. Um and then I remember when I left the school, it was just like he would FaceTime me each morning. Ah, I don't want anything. I just want to hear a voice. Oh, I don't want to. I'm just like, oh, okay, there's a pattern happening here. Um and so I just remember like in that moment, his mom was just like, it feels like when God took away um one that you you appeared and were able to kind of feel that for him. These last five, six years, you've been in his life showing up to his football games, going to his formals, making sure he's there, watching him all the way through graduation. And so for him to graduate this year, I was just like, Dog, yeah, yeah. And he's one of the kids like I worried about because I'm just like, this world is tough and he's tough. Um so yeah, I think my air solidified me wanting to make sure, like, whenever I'm interacting with black boys and black men in the world of I'ma still hold you accountable, but I think loving a black man is equal accountability and affirmation, right? And so that's the complicated nuance. I know in this world right now we kind of pathologize and think this is every black man who's doing this, and the majority of us doing blah blah blah. I said we can complicate the narrative a lot more. There's so many of us that are so complex, and how we arrive to this moment, it's not like what's wrong with black men, it's actually what happened to black men is how I just kind of frame it.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 24:00

When you say what's wrong, there's already a thing that you're not doing that's correct. If I say, yo, what's wrong with you?

SPEAKER_01 24:05

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Something's wrong with me as a person versus saying, Well, what happened to you? There's a lot of things that could have happened. You could have not gotten sleep last night, you might not have ate, you might have gotten into an argument, somebody might have made you mad. So by the time you get to me, you had a whole life happen before me. So what happened in that moment? If I would have gone to my dad and been like, yo, what's wrong with you? That's immediate trigger. Yo, what happened to you? Now I'm more curious and I'm judgmental. That's two different frameworks on how am I gonna be essentially trauma informed in terms of this. So I can't enter a space of just being like, you're the scum of the earth. Everybody's told you that growing up.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

You came to my ear. My ear, my now, you know, my ear a little rough, blah, blah, blah. Don't tell me about a student prior to beginning to interact with them. Yeah, I will make that judgment by that time. And even in that moment, they know they would tell me anytime, yo, we know a kid who goes through Richard's classroom anytime. Well, what do you need in this moment? Did I do something to make you angry? But even when you ask a black boy that question, it's it's hard to say, well, what do you need in this moment? They pause each time.

SPEAKER_04 25:08

Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Because we're expected to, they only reward us for our anger. They do not reward black men for being disappointed. They don't reward us for being sad, they don't reward us for crying. I'll give you something to cry about. You better be only crying in the most extreme circumstances. You better cry only when somebody in grief.

SPEAKER_04 25:27

I feel like I heard that growing up, like, even like when we got in trouble in the households, like, what you crying for? I'll give you something to cry. Like, that's like that's a common theme. Like, between no matter if you grew up in a two-person household or one-person household, whatever it may be, it's like, like you said, you have to really be crying about something. Be, if not, like sug it up and keep it pushing. Like you can't show no emotions.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

What are you talking about? And so that's the part that's tough because it's just like we are conditioned, and I think some people have good intent behind it because in a single parent household, my mom said, yo, you need to be tough. The world outside is not gonna be right. And so it was like, even in that moment, you're that's their definition of love and what they're working with, right? That's how they know to show up. My mom's not a man, but she she kind of embodied, like, all right, here's what I hope a man would be and how it would be and how he could be, blah, blah, blah. But she's raising four black boys. Like, that's still tough, right? And so I also don't fault parents who are just like, this is what they believe needs to be done. I think so many more are becoming a lot more aware of how they're showing up. And I see that working in schools now, but definitely I think it's so, I think it's tough to completely reorient your brain on is a man allowed to be soft? Is a man allowed to what is those moments of toughness? Is there a space, is there a soft landing for black men in other spaces? But when you hear media um say, Oh, this black man is trash, oh, you got um Carmelo Anthony being punished right away for defending himself, right? And so when you have all of these things going on at one time, what does that signal to us every single time we see media? There's no black male version of insecure, right? No black male male version of like we got Johnson and we got bruh. Yeah, but like if you're thinking around coming of age stories for black men specifically, where do we see that? Right, we're not we're not in those narratives, so even in the public imagination, it's hard for us to be anything other than of utility. Yeah, like I just wrote a substack about it of just like stop telling black boys what are you doing with all that height? Because now what you're telling me is oh, my height should only be used for utility. Let me grab something off the top of the shelf. You'll still you can still do it, but oh, let me go play a sport. Why are you playing the cello? Right? Why are you doing theater? Why are you dancing? Why are you doing this? Right? Completely different, but it completely ostracized the black boy who we assume should only be worthy of usefulness. In my mind, I said that's what they put us on this thing for for slavery. Right, facts. Oh, he can lift this high. You look strong, put him there. He can do this, be put him there.

SPEAKER_04 27:54

Speaking speaking of that, like that's what we talk about like with the combine with the NFL. Like, yeah, you're going out there weighing your height, whatever, see how much how valuable you are like that's that's like one and the same in a sense.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Yeah, and so when you think around that, what are points in time? I was tall and lanky. I didn't have no this weight, didn't it happen to me until I was 23. Like, right? And so even in that, it was just like, can you defend somebody? Can you do this? What can you do? Right, and so I know even when I'm walking on the street, I get respect simply off of my stature. Yeah, like, dog, what? Oh, you must work out, you must train people, you must do I don't like going to that damn gym.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

Yo, you funny as hell.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

You ain't gonna catch me. Sleeping in the day. I am, yeah, okay. And I'm gonna eat this freaking uh honey bun when I get home. Like, what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Yo, the tasty cake honey, little Debbie's honey bun top tier. I ain't gonna lie. Yeah, you're funny as hell.

SPEAKER_04 28:48

Why do you um one thing one thing I am happy about? Um, you could tell me if you agree, but one thing I am happy about, like not even just like the media space, but just I guess humanity in general, like the only things that I see is that black people or black men, black boys, black men, we're becoming a little bit less of a monolith. Like in the media space, like, for example, because we're both in media, you can have like a guy like a Deontay Kyle, you can have like a Joe Buddy, you can have like a Charlemagne, they're all different ends of the spectrum, but they're still getting the message across in their own way. Yeah. My first question to you is why do you think we became such a monolith? And then what do you think took us past that?

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yeah, I think we became a well, all right, there's a nerdy part, so I'm gonna geek out about theater real quick. So the nerdy part is the menstrual shows, right? Blackface that showed what they believed black men should be. They should be the man dingo, it should be the coon, it should be, right? Like there are all these ideas of what black men should look like and feel like and act like. They told us that in through entertainment. Entertainment is still how people receive so much of what they believe is true on TV. If 47% of black men on television are are um characterized as thugs, gang members, so think The Wire, think um power, think any any of these shows, right? Our hood soap operas. Okay. If most of us are watching these and we're just like, oh, this may be what respect looks like. Oh, the rise of gangster rap is no longer conscious rap. There become such a strong monolith because that's only one way for people to be able to consume us. Okay, but that's why somebody like I hate that I'm no. I'm gonna reference Uncle Phil. I'm gonna reference Uncle Phil. Uncle Phil was such a big piece for people because he was still this large man, he was bigger, he was on screen, but he showed what it meant to be gentle and also what it meant to be stern, right? We got to see Will, we got to see Carlton, we got to see Jazz, right? We have so many different representations. Then you get Martin, right? You get the Wayne brothers, right? You get all these different representations of black men, but somewhere in those 2000s, that identity flattened. But somewhere in 2016, during that renaissance of black television, you see Ralph Angel on screen from Queen Sugar, you see Randall Pearson from This Is Us, um, you see, and it's more specifically, you see you're seeing dark-skinned black men be softer. Brown-skinned black men be softer. Typically, we relegate that to simply just being light-skinned black men, but in the reality is those the dark-skinned black representation male representation we had on TV, if you see season two of Love Life, Marcus, that's a softer black man. But he's also not your traditionally what you would see online for us either. Right? But you see Ryan Kugler and you see Michael B. Jordan and you see softness happen even with these other black men who are a little bit more sturdy, right? Right. So I think even seeing that image, there's been a conscious effort. Even going back to when they depicted Obama in flowers when they debuted his portrait in the uh Blackstonian, right? That's a fundamentally different world to see somebody who is the leader of the free world, a black man, the first black male president, to be surrounded in flowers, innocence. That symbol in itself is fundamentally different. So I think there was a time where we were able to get that permission, but there's still tension there, right? Because we are still unlearning from earlier. Give me something to cry about. We're still unlearning, be a man, be useful. What's all that hype for? We're still unlearning all of that information. So yeah, it's gonna be tough for us to deprogram and unlearn so much of what we've been told is what a man is supposed to be. But I think for us, specifically as millennials and early Gen Z, um, elder Gen Z are pushing back against that of just being like, no, I am more than my job, I am more than a provider, I am more than a protector. I too sometimes needed protecting.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

That's okay to admit out loud. So I think that's where we see the tension come from when we get to the podcasting world and now the space of freer media. Typically, if you're in media, button up, hello, my name is Don Lemon, and this is CNN Tonight. Here we go today, right? Like, but we're even seeing him have more opportunity to show up fundamentally differently in this world. And so I do think we're seeing such a bigger breadth of folks like pop out, and we're seeing so much more representation because we ourselves are trying to challenge larger narratives, but now we are finding the platforms, whether for good or for bad, right? Um, to see so many different experiences to talk to. And I think it it tells us a little bit more around where we're at as men. I said the manosphere also lets us know how angry men are, how lonely men are, how sad men are. That's also like that's an that's a reaction to something. So if we're not interrogating how or what I like said earlier, what happened to these black men to get onto the space and say the things that they say about anybody that's different, we gotta find, we have to ask what happened in order to prevent that in the future. Right. Right. And that does not mean that work is cut out for everybody because that means you have to work with your own humanity, you have to be honest with yourself, you have to be um, you have to challenge a lot of time and find times where you are going to be the outsider.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

I know me standing up and saying, Hey, I don't accept that language, I don't accept that behavior. I had to be held accountable. Right. I had to be checked.

SPEAKER_04 34:16

My boys check me all the time. See, that's the biggest thing, though, being that being able to be checked, not thinking you're right all the time. Yeah. Um that's hard my Virgo as.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

I think I know everything.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

I'm just I'm the same way. Like when it comes to it takes, it took me a while to like not saying that I think I'm right all the time, but like I think naturally, well, you know, like being being on air, whatever, you just naturally could be I call argumentative. Yeah, you're always gonna say pushback for whatever reason because it's just it's it's innately inside of you, whatever it may be. Yeah, so sometimes I had to step back and be like, yo, I need to under listen. Like, even my everyday conversations, people tell me, yo, you're not on a podcast. Like, yeah, I can go back. So I had to like kind of like like wild back a little bit. I'm with you on that.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Don't don't podcast me right now.

SPEAKER_04 34:53

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and speaking of like the duality of like whether being button up, I think, I think, or or like being like your natural self. I think Mark LeBron Hill's a perfect example of that. Someone who's on who's like on CNN, um, and then you can you can see on Joe Buddha podcast, chopping it up and shooting the shit with just like the homies like you in the barbershop, whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Literally, my example of who I that's my north star in terms of being like how I exist in academia and how I exist in the podcasting and media space. Literally, it was just like, oh, you are the that's my possibility model right there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:22

And I and I think he he's showing that possibility where it's like, because that is, I feel like that's the everyday life of I would say the average black man, especially if you're working, if you if you have a job, you're going to a 95. It's like, say you're in corporate, you have to be a certain way, talk a certain way, but then like when that student tie comes off or or whatever, it's like you're back to like chopping up with the homies, like kicking it, whatever it may be. And that's what everyday life is. And I think people don't understand that. People don't realize that. And it's like they're seeing it for the for the I'll say for the first time on the forefront. And I think they need to see that because like going back to the monolith, we're not a monolith at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

So and I think I always tell people too, it's it's there's uh my friends always tell me, they're like, your cause playing as a straight man, Marquise. I was like, okay. I said, what you trying to say? But it's all because like even for my students, they were just like, You you DL, you DL straight. You ain't a real, you ain't really gay, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so even that kind of um, that kind of um cognitive dissonance is like hard for people to kind of realize, like, okay, he's dark skinned, he's burlier, whatever the case may be. For all intensive, how I participate in the world is extremely masculine.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

And so I think it's like even more interesting for me because so many of people are like, yo, thank you for just being an example. And this is every kind of black man who is now in my DM just saying, yo, thank you for being an example. Thank you for showing what it means to be liberty. Let me thank you for doing like the amount of people who said thank you for just being an example for who I'm allowed to be, I think that's so tough. And I and I also tell people I have the privilege of being masculine, so it's easier for us to see each other in a space because you're uh you're still I'm still safe right for everybody to not be clocked on the street if somebody's a little bit more effeminate, whatever the case may be. And so me being able to really traverse both um heteronormative spaces, queer spaces, everything in between, right? It gives people a different kind of look in terms of like, huh. So you just I just you just be. Yes, I am simply being. Okay, there might be times where Beyonce come on and I'll be acting up. Other times where there's Kendrick, Nas, you let somebody else what?

SPEAKER_01 37:34

I'm acting a fool.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Right. Um, but I think just showing like all of these spaces are the spaces of normalcy for me. Like two of my best friends, Miles and Chris, shout out to them. I we joke all the time of just being like, yo, shout out to just having like emotionally healthy black men who are secure in their masculinity and just simply exist. We are three different types of black men, right? But we absolutely still find love and respect and time and effort to place into each other in order to continue to show up in very particular kind of ways.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

Definitely. Like when you have your kids asking you those questions or like people around you asking those questions, or just even you stepping into your own and knowing who you are and being comfortable in your own, um, as you're navigating the space, um, is that intentional with the way you show up? Um, do you do you like fear not getting certain opportunities? Like, what's your thought process to go like going through that?

SPEAKER_00 38:22

For me, I'll tell you, like, authenticity has been so important to me. And so for me, even at work, there's like, oh, you should show up as your most authentic self all the time, don't you, Marky? Yes, yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

I said, because I worked too hard to build the person the man that I am today, in order to let somebody else's whatever rules were made up, yeah, for a man. You thought I was gonna play by rules that were never set up for me to win, anyways. I said, I'm black in America.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

That ain't gonna work.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Right. I said, every part of masculinity, my stature gives me, affords me masculinity, my demeanor, my character affords me the privilege of masculinity. But they find it anytime, and it's only funny because it took me a while to just be like, I'm gonna let y'all interact with me how you want to interact with me. They find out the moment I'm queer, they immediately just like, well, I mean, no wonder you act like that, da da da da. I said, but you was agreeing with every word I said prior to that information. What now has fundamentally changed on my ideas on relationships, my ideas on love, my ideas on masculinity, anything. You think I don't experience to support as a black man? Right. What are you talking about? Right. I said, I ain't even light skin, I don't got that privilege.

unknown 39:28

I'm dead. What are we talking about?

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Right? And so I think that for me is also such an interesting world where for some people it is complicated because it's just like, oh, there's resentment because, oh, well, you get to exist as your full self anyways, because there's there's no world where I was expected to act as my full self. Right. That I've lived in a world of complete um, whatchamacallit, sitting and following by the rules the entire time. I played by everybody's rules. Right. What are you talking about? I said, but playing by rules never got me anything. What what am I supposed to achieve? I'm not happy. Yeah. What are we talking about? Right. And so it's just like navigating that space where I had to be as excellent as possible because as my excellence meant that I'm undeniable. If I'm undeniable, you can't ignore me. If you can't ignore me, you can't abandon me. All of that is how my brain was working. Right. Now, shout out to my now, shout out to my therapist because you got me together. But it is really just like those moments where it has become intentional of just being like, this is how I show up. It's not, I'm not putting on an act. I'm not gonna, yo, yo, bro, like how you do? You cool. I'm not doing all of that. I don't got time for it. My voice goes up, my voice goes down, we be chilling. I'm sometimes curt, straight to the point.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

The other spots where they're like, yo, you're really just another nigga, huh?

SPEAKER_00 40:42

I'd be like, yes. Yeah, I'm regular. I'm on the street, I see the OGs, I walk down the block, yo, teach, how you doing? Yo, bro, how you living? Wooty wooty woo. I am not putting on an act for anybody. How I show up is how I show up, how I love is how I love, and it's gonna be out loud, whether that's romantically or platonically. I'm just showing up. I don't got time to play these games with everybody else.

SPEAKER_04 41:02

I got a question. Um, when it when it comes to that, like why do you think nowadays um people make like sexuality or what they're into, like their identity, as opposed to just like as opposed to like just walking around being yourself or or just what you're into, or like it's always say I'm a black man first or whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

Like, why do you think that is? Because uh the rest of the world gets to choose how they want to treat you, right? And so, yeah, when we walk outside, they do see black men. However, if they see somebody who is an effeminate black man or somebody who wants to wear makeup for the day, or somebody who wants to wear a wig for the day, or wear a dress for the day, all that situation, you're a black man who is bending the rules, who is breaking the rules. How dare you be free in front of my face in a world where I was supposed to practice constraint and little myself and have to shrink. What do you mean? How dare you do that? So that's why people also do it is because it's also leading with this is who I am. You get to now negotiate how you want to treat me. And now by you working with all of the information, it doesn't mean it's always safe to do it. It does not mean it's always safe to do it. There are spaces where I'm just like, oh, I know they're homophobic behinds. I ain't even gonna, I'm not even gonna entertain it.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

I said I'd rather get home safely than do some stuff, right? Um, however, common, and that's picking and choosing. It does not mean that I'm not hiding, but it does mean that I gotta choose points of safety because I know the environments that I'm in. I still live in the hood. Stop playing with me. Um, but I think also those who are able to express themselves, their gender expression may be a lot more expansive than mine, are also supposed to be safe. But they are choosing pride in terms of compromising safety. So the louder you live, the less safe it is for you. But that's also incumbent upon me and other folks who have mat who have privilege to show up a little bit more masculine and socially acceptable, quote unquote. Um, to also make sure we're also speaking up in those moments because that's still another black man that you are accosting. Correct. You're also telling somebody else to shrink the ways in which you were told to shrink. Right. Why would I ever perpetuate that exact same thing? I know what it's like to shrink myself. You know what it's like to shrink yourself. I know what it means when they said I was disposable. I don't think black men should walk around the world feeling like they're disposable because now I don't have anything to give. Now I'm frustrated. Now I'm gonna take it out on the people who care about me the most. Like that to me is why I do believe some folks are able to choose and express their queerness much more loudly and making sure they're making a statement. Because how you get to choose to treat me means I get to choose how I want to engage with you as a person. I don't fault people who are just gonna say, I'm I'm good off of so and so. But don't take away a person's right to. Their humanity. And that for me is just like human decency is at the forefront of everything that I do believe. My politics are human decency. Right. Black people, first and foremost, and all of that. And so once I see another black person, oh, we see each other. I might not have to like you, but I'm darn sure I'm not going to dispose of you.

SPEAKER_04 44:17

Right. And speaking, speaking of the be of being dis not being disposable, people thinking we are disposable. How did how did like the events like Trayvon Martin? Um was it Michael Brown? All of them, all these, all these occurrences that we've seen growing up, because this happened like in like the prime of like us coming of age. Yes. And us like be it if us becoming into adulthood. Like, how did that affect? I don't know how to affect me. How did it affect you when it came to just you personally, the work that you're putting putting forth, the what you're putting out into the universe? Like, how did that affect you?

SPEAKER_00 44:50

I didn't know how to really process Michael Brown and um I didn't know how to process those, right? I had it was Philando Castillo that really got me. That's when I was it by myself in New York City, my second year in college. I'm 20 and I'm living in the PJs with a distant cousin, not really knowing nothing about New York, but I was just happy I was there.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

And I remember laying there in the PJs and I watched that video of them shoot him in front of his wife and his kids. Somebody who worked in the cool system. And I just remember walking to work the next day, getting on an A-train all the way up to the Upper West Side and having to continue my internship. My cousin just disappeared, so I didn't know where she was at. But I just remember everybody else is just walking around business as per usual. I said, Ain't no way. I said, How are y'all doing this right now? How? But I that's when I discovered Mark Lamont Hill because now I'm watching CNN. I'm getting introduced to Angela Rye, Bakari Sellers, Mark Lamont Hill, everybody on there. And he's expressing my anger in a ways in which I just did not know how to. So I remember taking the A-train up. He was up in Harlem having a talk, and that's when I got his book Nobody. But listening to him talk around the injustices to Ferguson to Flint, I was just like, this is the world of where that shifted for me. That's where I became even more radical. I was very much so like this system's not designed for us. I'm very much so on my Malcolm X, Black Panther, Fred Hampton, like through and through. And so that's really where my politics is at. It's just like when push comes to shove, black people are gonna, I'm defending by any means necessary black people, no matter point blank period. We get we handle the stuff that we gotta handle with each other, but for the most part, when it is us against the world, absolutely not. I'm going up for us every single time, every single lifetime. And so that's where like my politic has come from. That's where my ideas on human decency come from, people's right to their humanity comes from. That all lives there. And so I don't play when it comes to like more of like the socio and political issues. My human-to-human interactions is one thing. How I show it for black boys and black men is one thing, um, black people at large, but uh, we can't afford not to have each other. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:11

Yeah, that's interesting. Um, that you said we can't afford to not have each other. I would I just want to stick on the Mark Leh Mark Lamont Hill point. Yeah, um, because there was a clip, um, it might have been a couple months ago, um, where they're he's obviously he's on the JBP, so he was they were talking about something, and then another podcast was asking like why he was on that platform talking. I forgot about it. Native Sun.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Not Native Sun, um, Native Land Pod. Yeah, the native land pod. With Angela Rye.

SPEAKER_04 47:34

Yeah, with Angela Rye. They were saying, like, why are you there? Like, you're almost like you're above them. Like, why you shouldn't be in that space. And what do you think about the hierarchy with I know you said we handle things internally as black people, what about the hierarchy that's within black people?

SPEAKER_00 47:47

Oh, yeah, I don't like elitism. I don't do it, I don't do well with it. I think what Mark is doing, um, I think it's needed, right? Like, I still, like, even for me, I saw myself reflecting that moment because I sit on a block and I talk to folks that anybody else on the street would deem as y'all's y'all ignorant. Marquis, why would you even associate with them? And I'm in the world where I work in higher ed, so I'm in academia, I'm a podcaster, okay. I exist in the world of politics, I know how to interact with large gallas, so the spaces that I'm also in naturally lend itself to me to be one of the black elite. Point blank, period. I'm out of you see me at award shows, you see me on car, right, right? Like the life that I lead and I demonstrate online also demonstrate, like, oh, well, Marquise is one of us. When I enter those rooms with folks who think I'm one of them, I know how to navigate them, I know how to play the game. But I don't actually agree with their politics, right? A lot of these folks are conservative black people in leadership.

SPEAKER_04 48:47

Yo, I try to tell people that all the time. They don't understand that.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

They don't understand. I said, oh no, I'm sitting in a room with a whole lot of black leaders, and I'm gonna say, well, what makes you any different? What are you doing that's different? I said, just because we have representation in that space does not mean that it's good representation. They know I get into Mayor Parker's behind every single time. You're gonna talk about that in a second, yeah. Okay, but I do very much so believe like it's necessary for us to build capacity for one another. And what they did, what Mark Lamont Hill represents on JBP is if I were to move and say, well, everybody's below me, my siblings work in factories. My older brother, shout out to Rev, had told me, Marquise, you're coming home talking about dismantling white supremacy, patriarchal capitalism. I don't know anything that you are talking about right now. How are you telling me that you're trying to help me when you cannot explain what this means? When you cannot break it down in a language that makes sense for us. Your barrier is, though we're proud of you for your education, but you cannot expect everybody to be on that type time and using that language if we did not have the access that you had. That fundamentally changed how I entered the podcasting space and moved.

SPEAKER_03 50:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:03

If my siblings, if I can't do work that helps my siblings, I I cannot think around it on a systemic level. If I cannot do work that helps the black people I'm in community with, I can't put that to scale.

SPEAKER_03 50:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

It does, but putting that to scale means some people are going to be uncomfortable. And we're seeing that now in politics when you see progressive policy and progressive candidates be put into positions, and then the uh Democratic Party is like, Well, you can't do this. This is not making sense. I'm not gonna endorse this. This is gonna be a problem for the party, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, change is necessary because guess what? I remember, and I'll tell the story. I remember when it was the height of the pandemic, it's a George Foy's protest. I'm hosting an entire State of the Union for black people. I had senators in my meeting, superintendents in my meeting. This is all on a Zoom. It's online. Anybody can see it. Well, what do we need to do? What does this mean? What do we do here? I had somebody come up to me like, yo, Marquise, I thank you for everything that you're doing. Thank you for how you're showing up. I support you. I just know I cannot be seen around you because I'm not the I don't want to detract from your moment because they think I'm a thug. And I looked at, I said, You're the person I need in a room. I said, I have the privilege of a degree. At least, right? The perception of being higher, higher in higher ed, having an education behind me. So yeah, I can play the palatable black person if needed in that moment. And I'm still not. I was told I need a light-skinned counterpart to come off softer in podcasting. Right? Right. But to watch him say that, I said, you're the person I need at the table because you're experiencing poor policy at a much faster rate than I am, because you have less protections than I do. So that would be insane for me to gain a platform that advocated for black people in order to bridge academia in the hood and then to turn my back on the hood. Yeah. Are you bugging? It wouldn't even make sense. It don't make sense at all. And so, yes, I can understand the frustration. I'm on a podcast with a conservative. I was on a guest of a podcast with a conservative conversation. Yeah, but the disclaimer about hood. It was not mine. I did not invite conservatives onto my show.

SPEAKER_04 52:22

Why not?

SPEAKER_00 52:23

Oh, I'm because they have more than enough platforms. We live in a conservative land. I don't need another. I love tension and ideas, but we can be on the same side and still have, we might want the end result to be the same, but the ways in which that we get there is different. It's a whole philosophy behind Malcolm and Martin.

SPEAKER_02 52:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

You want a liberation for black people? The means to the ends may have been different. But it does not mean that we are at odds with each other in terms of how we are getting to that journey. I don't need to be on the side, have a white supremacist in my space in order to say, now here's how you refine your idea and here's how we can make a lesson. Why put somebody who wants the detriment of black people onto a platform that is meant to empower black people and inform black people? You have plenty enough representation out there that's letting you know all of these baseless ideas or claims that do not advance us as a society. It advances itself. But why would I platform somebody like that if my platform has been about black liberation? I'll go to somebody else's and we can have a conversation. Cool, I'll do that. But to be in a space now, different types of black people, I'll be in community with.

SPEAKER_04 53:32

That's what I was gonna ask.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

From the hood to the most elite of the elite to the CEOs, to everybody. I'm I'm in community with them. That's cool. But when it comes to specifically conservatives, you don't even see my humanity. You voted to take rights away from my students that I serve. Why would I ever platform somebody like that? Do you do they live everywhere else? You got Fox News, go watch it.

SPEAKER_04 53:54

Do you do you not think it's there's value in allowing, I guess, your audience to see what you're fighting against or to understand what's going on on the other side so they can navigate in the most efficient way? Because it's it's almost I feel as though like we talk about this on our platform all the time. It's like, yeah, we may not agree with everything, but it's important to understand what the other like the other side, whether you're conservative, whether you're whether you're liberal, whatever me, is talking about. So you know what you're actually fighting against.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

Yeah, I study the other side regularly. My job as an educator is to articulate the class struggle. So when I'm on my show, yeah, we can actually talk about some regular stuff and talk around some really important things, and still I don't have to be in a space where I'm consistently fighting about fighting back against misinformation, disinformation, because now you're no longer my my peer. I'm your teacher. I'm teaching you the legacy of a Malcolm X. I am teaching you the black radical tradition. I am teaching you that you're allowed to have a conservative opinion because of Angela Davis. She made that sacrifice for you to be a free thinker. Because guess what? They wasn't telling you you could do that. So let's be very clear. For me personally, there are platforms that invite that on. For me, I'd rather say, let's have a conversation on Booker T. Washington and W.E.B. Du Bois. Let's have a conversation on Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. Let's have a conversation on the Black Power movement, what we agree and disagree with, and how we can critique that. But I'm not, I don't have to be a on a person that I'm gonna have, I gotta regulate, plus I gotta regulate you, and then on top of that, teach you and bring you up to speed as to how if you talk to most black conservatives, their whole thing, it don't even gotta be the MAGA conservatives. Black conservatives are typically it's family values, it's religion, and then it's just making sure I can have mine because I work too hard and I have my built myself up by the bootstratch. They are very simple people, okay? But that's only I'm bringing on less than 20% of the population. Right if I I just did a study with black men vote. Black men are 20% independent, 20% Republican, do not identify as MAGA Republican. Now there's a couple in between there. Definitely a few. And then the rest are Democrat to progressive. So what are we saying? Why worry about this 20%? They still, there's some people gotta be left behind. I do believe that.

SPEAKER_04 56:20

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 56:20

Handle y'all business. However, I navigate the world as black people who experience conservative policy all the time, redlining. They just took away our civil rights. They just had to have a thing on birthright citizenship.

SPEAKER_03 56:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

Why add somebody on here? One, for y'all to just sit there, sit there and blast, anyways, because I know my audience. Right? It doesn't mean and have my audience, I ain't gonna lie. There are moderates to liberals in my in my in my audience to abolitionists. There are some folks who are actively conservatives who you will see consistently in my comments. I let everybody else handle that. But I know the work that I have to do, you're a distraction. I don't need, I don't need a distraction. You have plenty of other platforms to go distract somebody else on. I will not waste my time, my little bit of time I have on this earth with you.

SPEAKER_04 57:12

All right, so let's let's talk about let's talk about what's going on here in the city of Philadelphia. Um that's that's where we're both at. Um I know you touched on Mayor Sherelle Parker. Let me get your overall first I want to get your your thoughts on what she how the job you think she's been doing since she's been in office. You know, she's up for she's gonna be up for re-election in a year from now. Um let's start there.

SPEAKER_00 57:33

Um she has a couple of wins. Cool. However, her losses are extreme. So if I'm going to think around significant points in Sherelle Parker's time, she already started off her um candidacy talking around stop and frisk. We know that negatively impact impacts black boys. So the more interactions you have with a cop is the more opportunity you have to go to jail. Philly's a majority black city. It's the it's a poor black city. Why would you even think that's smart to do? Right? That's one. So I'm already I'm cool off that. Then you get into some more major things going on. You think around Chinatown. Over 74% of Philadelphia did not want the stadium in market east.

SPEAKER_02 58:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 58:23

So you're gonna tell me you're displacing another community in order to gain money, only for them to turn around and just be like, oh, we're just gonna build it down with the rest of the stadiums. So you wasted our time there. They gave you the data, they gave you the information, they let you know why this would negatively impact Philly, and you still did not listen to any of your constituents, the majority of your constituents, because you were worried about being the CEO of Philly. The CEO of Philly as a branding idea means that you are worried about business connections. Right. You are not worried about people. CEOs don't have to worry about people, they're worried about money, right? You already let us know what type of time you're on with that connotation. You then move into the strike with DC 33. That's another stain. Some would say it's garbage on her space, right? Her legacy now has another stain because now what you're telling me is that you're willing to weaponize the union and also not support working families. These are your everyday people, and it's not just the sanitation workers, these are librarians. And explain what that is for the people that don't so when you're thinking around um people who work in service, when you're looking at DC 33 as an overall union, these are people in service. So when you're thinking around um librarians, when you're thinking around your trash collectors, your sanitation workers, any folks of that nature, they're still looking for support to make sure they can make a living, livable wage, right? So that increase can mean something different for somebody's family. That can mean more economic opportunity. So you can't tell me you're looking to do economic opportunity in a city that's majority blue-collar and not white-collar. There's a difference when you see a New York. New York, you can go from the projects to high rises in less than a block. There's a clear class stratification there. DC, you got the bougie ones and you got the NASA bougie ones. Right. There's a clear class stratification. Philly doesn't have that same kind of culture in terms of economic prosperity. We're still the fifth or sixth largest, poorest city. Yeah. That means something. Right. Then you get into some stuff that's a little bit more recent with this schools. Charter schools are under attack. School systems. School systems under attack. How am I gonna find all of this stuff for to keep so many of these workers for the school budget? Right. And then on top of that, for you to talk around wanting to bring more people into Philly, right? However, that means the demographic fundamentally changes in Philly. You're suddenly finding money when your favorite cousins come to town, right? But suddenly there was no there was no money for the people, the indigenous to indigenous Philadelphians, for the people who are teaching our kids. And then you're able to weaponize that of just being like, well, if you don't choose to pass this Uber tax, then you're also putting kids at risk. And then for you to put kids on your marketing in order to then try to get that point. I said you move like an abusive parent who don't know how to apologize. Let's be clear. I need y'all to do this thing for me. Oh, y'all don't want to do this thing, then this is what you're gonna lose. Oh, but I'm gonna throw Wawa Fest is now gonna be one Philly Fest, right? Without even telling Wawa. So now you find suddenly all of this money to create activations for FIFA, for all of this stuff to happen, right? But we didn't actually hear you fully talk about what it meant to have black history being taken off, right? She then talked about it after the fact. You also have even with like the Working Families Party. I'm actually nervous about what it means to dissent against a mayor who does not like to be dissented again. For her to give out performative outrage to the staff, she's not good to work with, if that's the case. Your counsel is not supposed to be a unanimous agreement all the time. It is meant to sharpen and refine ideas and make sure we get to the best conclusion for your constituents. So you then get to something like the um primaries. You have Dr. Ala Stanford, you have Chris Rabb, you have um Sharif Street, right? I said once Mayor Parker endorsed Sharif Street, he lost. Yeah, I saw that. I said, I called that, and I called it because I said if you look at the rest of America's major cities and know where they're investing their time and space, resources for community. So if you look at Chicago, they're experiencing such a significant and crime across the U.S., violent crime across the U.S. is has been going down from the get-go. The most the violent crime that's happening is burglary. People are stealing, okay? Scamming. Okay. Jenna Carisha, okay. Yeah, she got the record of the children. Um, but when you put all of this stuff together, you have the pressure of a Brandon Johnson um in Chicago. You then see in Baltimore how they have significantly decreased. The mayor's been doing the thing. Right. But you're investing in third spaces, you're investing in after-school programming, you're investing in families to be able to have a sustainable life. They're increasing a police budget does not actually mean there's increase there's a decrease in crime. It actually means there's more interactions for people to go to prison.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:44

And so instead, why would you invest in more crime prevention and not think around the actual deterrent, like the um deterrent programs, right? Diversion programs, invest in your boys and girls club, invest in after school programs, 21st century programs, all of this stuff lets us know the amount of crime that is going on with our Philly youth, if that's happening between the hours of two and six typically, from ages 18, um, 14 to 22. What's happening between two and six? You're commuting back and forth to schools.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:15

What can be an intervention that goes in between that? Can they get an extra hot meal a day? I know what that was like because I went to the Olivet's Boys and Girls Club to get that extra hot meal a day, get homework help, and have a mentor who's close to my age. You employ young people to start seeing if mentorship is something they're interested in. You build out that kind of system. Kids have another space to go that they feel obligated to be. I know this because I have an after-school program where kids don't even need necessarily all the supports from like SAT prep or college readiness and stuff like that. The biggest reason in there is a safe space and a community where they can be themselves.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:50

Yeah, let me let me ask you this while we're on that, on that, that third space um point, the education system, hiring young people. Yeah, you're you're you're in it when it comes to education in Philadelphia. Like what's the gap? Because I know myself at one point I wanted to test around what it was like to be in education. But I've I've a passion, I have a passion for the youth as well. I have friends that that wanted to get in there, but it's like that gap from when you apply versus when they even call you back to get opportunity. Yeah. And then you see all over whether it's social media, whether it's TV, oh, there's a shortage in teachers, the teachers, shortage in staff. Like, where do things get lost in that in that transition?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:26

Man, first and foremost, surprisingly enough, over I believe over 80% of black men who get a four-year degree, our first job is in education. Right. Yeah. So we start in education actually after acquiring our um our degrees. That's first. Two, teaching's not sexy. No one teaching needs teachers in education needs better PR. Don't sell me I'm gonna save somebody all the time. Right. But what I do need you to sell me is oh, you telling me I got a summer off and still get paid? Period. Oh, you tell me I got every holiday off? Period. Oh, I got this winter break. What? Right? But what you hear about teaching is what I don't get paid enough, I don't know how to handle these kids no more, these families are burning me out, the administration is doing too much. I have to deal with the politics of the school now. So when you think around all of the other pressures that come along with working in a school, that's tough. So I do think, like, first and foremost, teaching just has a bad PR system. And then secondly, I think it's not always sustainable, especially if we're thinking around black male educators, to also have that because we went from being 2% to 1.3%, which I think is even going down to maybe like a little less than 1%.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:35

So when we're thinking around that as well, it's hard for other black boys and other black students and majority black cities to see themselves in these systems, us as men to see ourselves in the system, if the people in power are never us.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:47

Now I'm lucky and privileged enough to be in a network of black male principals and school leaders and executive directors and CEOs and stuff like that, to know I can see ourselves in so many of these spaces and see the dynamic work. If you look at boys line alone, right? I had the privilege of being able to work there, build out a black masculinity curriculum, and then also see five of the kids that I taught also graduate with their associate's degree. And out of all the dual enrollment and um programs that get students their associate's degree, those are the only black boys?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:19

Come on now, right? Dr. Will Hayes, I'll give you that one.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:23

Yeah. Um, so so going along with that, I mean, we're speaking on the city, we're speaking on what needs to change. We spoke on the mayor. Um, what do you think the path is for the black community to be liberated within the city? Like to have the things that we're looking for. Like, what do you think it's gonna take? Not necessarily just what's the first step, but like if we had like a one-year plan, three-year plan, and five-year plan to go in that direction, like in your mind, in a perfect world, what would that look like to you?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:51

Articulate the class struggle first and foremost. We need to be very clear about the fact that we are all working class people. As we are articulating that, we need a critical mass of people to understand that what is happening right now can be fixed on a local level and state level. So first and foremost, some of these systems we point at like, oh, that's the mayor. Sometimes it's not the mayor, sometimes it's your senator, right? Sometimes it's your governor, right? You have House representatives, right? You have so many people that have different functions of how your jobs work and what systems they are accountable to. Locally, I can put pressure on the after-school spaces because the mayor can dictate the after-school budget, the arts and culture budget, which they wanted to zero out. This is the second time they wanted to zero out arts and culture on the budget. However, art and culture is necessary for sustaining communities and telling our stories. Anytime there's an arts and culture zeroed out budget, more crime will increase. Right? And so it's starting to articulate that class struggle, starting to articulate, hey, this hurts here because this person's not doing their part of the job. So we need a critical mass of people to be able to understand that. Because now when I have a critical mass of people, now I can say, hey, here's how we need to mobilize. And so, yeah, it is gonna be like, hey, I need us to all make sure we get out and vote. And it's not only 2% of the city that's voting that are all elect that are all eligible to vote. We all need to get out and do that, right? However, that's not the end-all be-all of my politic either. You need to go beyond that, right? What are the things that you can do in mutual aid in the moment? Because sometimes policy does move slowly. Yeah, budgets do move slowly. So, what can we do in the middle of that too? So I would also encourage, like, as we are articulating a class struggle, make sure that we have short-term solutions. Cool. How is mutual aid existing in these spaces? How can we get the majority of students to be in after school spaces? How are we able to also support the infrastructure so we have people who can be paid to keep our kids in these after school spaces? Right. And now I need to apply pressure to city council, I need to apply pressure to the mayor, I need to apply pressure to governors, I need to apply pressure to our senators to ensure that there is a there is a plan in place. And so what I think ideally is that we just do the 10-point plan like the Black Panther Party did. We then give that, see what it works for us in Philly, but we say, cool, if we know education disparity is a big thing that everybody's going through, what does that look like? If I'm looking at my family down in South Carolina, that's gonna look different in terms of what they need and how they will mobilize, right? And so I think the first year is really just articulating the class struggle and like what are our interlocking moments of oppression, making sure that everybody's on board with that. But then I think also quite as a cap, excuse me, we keep watching Baltimore, New York, and Chicago. They are really moving the needle in a fundamentally different way. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:48

The more that everybody's like, I need a mom Donnie in Philly, I need this, I need this. I said, there are also two black men that have been doing that easily.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:56

And so let's also continue to lift up those who are doing that kind of work. And so for me, right now, we're going to see, I'm also predicting that we're gonna see more progressive policy happen because right now, when you realize, oh, it's it is easier to do the thing, and you realize people are capable, people just don't want to. That's the problem, right? And so the first year, articulate the class struggle. The next couple of years, we need to organize and let us know who those new leaders are going to identify and be. And then collectively, even from our spaces as media people, how do we help situate everybody in those moments? It does not mean mean you need to agree on everything. Right, right. However, we can say, here's the stuff that maybe our mayor got right. Here's the stuff that I don't think got right, here's the stuff where city council kind of got messed up, right? But if we are all able to kind of help articulate that in conjunction with the journalists that are also here in Philly that are doing a phenomenal job, that helps us articulate here's the who, what, when, where. We provide why and perspective. So then you see the media all having a cohesive narrative. So even on us on the back end, it requires us to do some game planning of like when we do talk about particular things, this is how we should talk about it. Add your flair, add your opinion, your lived experience, and here's how we can motivate people to do that. We don't realize the power of media and the amount of people that are getting their information from us is so vast. Yeah, from there, we see in these next couple of years. I do truly believe if a progressive candidate were to pop up, and in my opinion, if Kendra Brooks were to run, she would win. She's the people's champ, right? If Nico Rourke were to run, he could win. That's a those are folks who we see across across America. The Working Families Party has been the alternative for so many people. That's why the Democratic Party is shaking right now. That's why it was important for Brian Parker to endorse Sharif Street.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:52

He's an establishment and career Democrat. It doesn't mean and I again, I actually think him and Chris Rabb were in line with the majority of their policies. It was really just simple, similar to what Tanahassi was talking about in his most recent article. How you look at Gaza, how you look at human uh rights violations in general, will let me know as a morality test. Right now, the only difference that these two candidates that were different was their morality and their choice to what they wanted to speak up on. I need sadly, I need you to virtual signal in order for me to move in a certain direction. If you don't do that, but I can't trust you. I can't trust you to push against Trump. I can't push you, I can't trust you to push against these courts. I can't trust you to push against folks who are plotting policy at our demise. So if you're just gonna capitulate, I don't need that. But if you're gonna be something different, that's what we need. That's the reason you have in New York people voted for Trump and AOC in the same breath. What do they both represent? Something different from the establishment.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:01

Right? So that for me is where that one, three to five would happen. I think Philly is definitely going to follow suit. I think it's just a matter of somebody's going to have to ultimately stop.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:11

I think I think Philly has a lot of upside. I think there's a lot of like you said, there's a lot of potential here. Um if we if we get things on the right direction, yeah, depending on who gets into the office or whatever it may be. Um I think like you said, the the the cities that you lined out, whether it be Chicago, whether it be New York, I think New York's doing Mandami, obviously he's doing like Yeah, that PR is crazy. PR is crazy. And I and I think I think one, you can tell me as well. I think one, it's it's needed. What he's doing is needed on the PR level because it shows, like you said, every other city, every other, not just city, but every other citizen in every other city. Oh, this can really be done.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:46

If New York is doing it, everybody else is on the you is New York is by far the largest city. Yeah. You telling me these smaller cities can't do that?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:57

He balanced a billion-dollar deficit. Yeah. What are you talking about? And then still kept so he didn't cut any social systems in place. He's increased health care, he's increased wellness for um K uh kids who are two and under, right? What are you talking about? Then you have then he's on a winning streak. I ain't even gonna lie. Okay, you got the Knicks, plus mom Donnie, plus he got all the progressive candidates. It's a perfect storm for New York. Yeah, everybody's wants to ride that momentum. Everybody's like, I needed my mom, I need my mom Donnie here.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:30

Do you think, do you think the the rise of all this like this progressive movement and this social media, not social media, social media's been around like Trump used social media just in a different way. He's more like the clickbait, rage bait, the one he just that he's gonna get. He's a master of market editor. Yeah, he's gonna get attention any way he can as long as he has the eyes on you. Do you think this way of being progressive has has um has popped up as a counter to that because people have so much a lot of from what I've seen, whether you're right or left have a distaste of what's been going on in the country over the last few years?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:59

Yeah, oh my God, yes. Trump has created the perfect conditions for Democrats to have to move to an extreme. Trump's extreme to the right went so far, yeah, that now it's just showing like when Democrats and Republicans are still here, which you mean you y'all one and the same. There ain't much that is different, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:18

So for you to have this reaction of just being like, oh, I need something a little bit more radical. I need something a little bit even more radical. I need something even more radical. Everybody benefits from progressive policy. Whether we want to be, whether we want it to be true or not, right? Obamacare is still a progressive policy. Biden had the most amount of progressive policies. Even if we didn't feel it because we're in cities, my family down south felt him, right? And so to me, a lot of the time, it is a matter of like this this is a perfect storm of conditions where you're just like, oh, I see that you're still able to make my life fundamentally easier. New York's a happier place. People in New York are happier. People are excited and proud to have a mayor like Mom Donnie. Right. I think the same thing would have to go where people can be excited in a Philly, right? I think when we talk around progressive politics, I think largely we complain about the conditions. We don't all as black folks more specifically, we don't always realize like progressive policy is what got us to these situations now. Right. When I was in a room with Angela Davis two years ago, she was like, My sacrifice is why we can sit in this fancy room right now. That's why I'm so serious around like, do not crap on the black radicals that got us the privileges to be on this platform and say whatever we want without them trying to lynch us, right? Who fought against Jim Crow, even if that's evolved into mass incarceration. We still have the privilege to think differently and express our opinions and know that the work that we do is in service of a community, right? And so I do think at the end of the day, I think where the progressive parties, whether you're thinking about working families or um democratic socialists of America, all that good stuff, when you think around all these left-leaning parties, they're creating a runway for what a future could look like. But because that's so uncomfortable for so many people, and because when we're just like, there's a large amount of white people who are invested in this thing, I don't know if I trust this for black people, that can also be a little bit of a factor, right? And so I do think it's like a both and in terms of like, yeah, there's some folks that are gonna be moderate and in the middle type situation. But I do think the more we see people who are gonna be very blunt around the conditions that we're in and just saying, here's how we fix it. They don't want to fix it, that's them. Don't put them back in power. That's where we're gonna see that more of.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:42

Right. And speaking of like the mass incarceration thing, um, as that being like an evolution to be lynched and all that type of stuff back in the past. Um, I know you mentioned the Comarlo Anthony um trial and stuff that that happened. What were I had I had mixed emo mixed feelings about the whole case and all that type of stuff. And I feel like an appeal is needed. I feel like there needs to be a longer, a longer trial. I think it went by way too fast. On Air I even said though, I was I was disappointed in in how he reacted in in the actions that he took. I don't think he needed to take it that far. Right. But when it comes to the actual trial aspect, I think it went too fast. So I want to get your thoughts on that first and in how everything transpired and how you see it come. Either you think he's gonna actually get opportunity in his appeal or not, whatever, whatever that may be.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:27

Yeah, I think if I'm thinking back to the trend how it all transpired, I actually, when that verdict came, I was so angry because I'm just like, because not only a day later it came out that the dad, who was also present, was crapping on black people. He was he was extremely racist. I said, You're in Texas, you'll probably have to defend yourself at some point in time. So I'm not surprised that he had something on him, because at the end of the day, I think we always say it all the time. Even living in Philly, my mom goes, Marquise, you better be strapped. You better have something on you. We tell uh we tell each other to do that stuff all the time. Right. So when we have to actually put it into action, now it's suddenly it's a problem, right? And so I do think it becomes that question on like, how do how are we supposed to defend ourselves? If it gets to that point, yeah, I said you're surrounded by a bunch of adults who watched it escalate.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:20

You're in Texas, a very racist state, you stood your ground, but there are other adults who could have intervened before it even got to that point. And then suddenly nobody's phone was working, even phones were out. That's what that's what's good. I was curious about that, too.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:37

I'm surprised that there was no cell phone footage, nothing like that. Because anytime that even if we're walking down the street in Philly, if somebody's fighting or they're arguing, oh let me let me take my phone on the club.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:44

Carmelo Anthony called the cops and turned himself in.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:48

If he had something to hide, why would he have done that?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:52

Right? They're still fight-flight-freeze. He's 17 years old. Yeah. Surrounded by a bunch of people who don't know you and probably despise your humanity. I have to defend myself. And so that for me is just like if you cannot understand that context of how we would have gotten up to that moment, none of us all have the answers. Those people who were there, we have now have the unreliable narrator of whiteness defending them. Oh, you just killed a white boy, all American, and you're black, and you the aggressor, it's a perfect storm to say that. And then for it to be an all-white jury who didn't even take time to deliberate the possibility of it being what? Right? And so I think that's so important for us to kind of contextualize because it just goes to let us know if when you go to defend yourself, are we gonna say the same thing about you?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:42

Oh, you didn't have to do it that way. Oh, well, why'd he have a knife in the first place? Why do you have a gun in the first place? Walking around, right? Right? Situation, it still matters, right? And so I do think, like, from a legal standpoint, I do think he needs a retrial. I do think he needs better lawyers, I think he needs people who are going to go up. I think public needs to put apply so much pressure in order to let them know that they are not satisfied with what just happened to that black boy.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:06

Yeah, definitely. And like when you put it in that perspective of just like, yeah, how people are gonna say if I was in a situation that people are gonna perceive me and all that type of stuff. It's like, yeah, you're right. Because we we're sitting here from a studio giving our opinion, like we weren't there, like in hindsight as well, too. Like, we're not it, we don't know what happened a day before. We don't know what his experience was like, whether he was getting bullied, whatever it may be. Um, all see so you're right in that respect. I I'll give you that when it comes to that. It's just like, I don't know, man. I feel like it's a tricky, it's a tricky place to be in. Um, take it out of the Carmelo Anthony situation, just like when, like you said, black people in general are in those situations. How do how are we supposed to react? Because we want to get home like everybody else. That's all, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:43

And you think about that a lot of times because I sit there sometimes. I'm just like, yo, like we lived in a world of a um Emmett Till. Right, right? We lived in a world of um Ahmad Arberry, who we watch get chased down, yeah. We live in a world of Khalif Browder, who took his own life after interacting with the system. So even that interaction with the system, we sentenced black men and black boys to death simply by sending them to prison.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:08

I went and volunteered up at the uh up on State Road. Some of these boys who have completed murder or have attempted murder, it has all consistently been a failure of community. Someone put the gun in their hand. These are kids who are 13 and will not see the light of day until they're 34. And they're okay with that. They've become resolute. By the day on their birthday, they get moved over to the adult prison. Right? You have 16 months before you see a trial. So you're already aged up, you're already experiencing dysregulation, you're already scared. It does not make what you did right, but I think what happened to you leading up to that moment is a consistent failure of the adults in the space. I never, I never, it's it's very hard for me to fault a child for something that was the inaction of adults or because of adults, right? And so for me, I think that's also the point of where I'm just like, nah, dog, like when are those moments that we get that kind of shared humanity? How much are we actually trusting these white people to actually tell the truth on black people historically? What gave us proof that they would do that? And even if you look at the little moments that we experience in in our everyday, right? We have managers who consistently probably lie on our names, right? As black people, we're just like, well, I want to take it to HR, but I don't know if I should, because if you retaliate, then that's gonna be an uncomfortable work environment. So now we have to just simply remove ourselves, right? We go through these interactions in terms of what self-defense can look like all the time because we don't trust that the system's gonna work for us, anyways. And so I do think as we look at these little battles that we have every day when negotiate small negotiations that we have every single day to defend ourselves, to truly believe in that we're allowed to do it. That for me lets me know Carmelo Anthony feels like the extreme of what we experience on a daily basis. And so, when are those moments that we're allowed to defend? When are those moments that we're allowed to push back without it feeling like, oh, they're all gonna go up against me anyways?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:11

Yeah, and and to move it a little bit um long, but same, same topic. Like one thing I was happy about, and we talked about this on our show, was you're probably familiar with the Chuck the Builder guy that was walking around saying the streamer, he was walking around calling all these black people the N-word, and he's like, Oh, you're chimping out, and it just and he and it but he finally got nope, I'm not on this. Yeah, so it was a whole it was a whole thing. So it's it was this big streamer, right? Um, he wasn't that big, but he was he was coming up, he was doing clickbaity stuff, rage-based stuff. He was walking around with a stream, walking, walk up to the table, walked to Marquise, he said, Oh, do you care if I call you nigga? Do I don't care if you call it? And then people get mad, like, yo, like chill out, whatever. He's like, Oh, look at you, you're chimping out just to get a reaction out of him. And there it got to the point where he got in a tussle with some guy and he winded up, I think he either shot himself or shot the guy, but a gunfire went off and now he's in prison. So I was like, that was like a sign of me. It's like, all right, people are really seeing like, all right, motherfuckers are out here wilding. They're trying it, they're trying to think they can get away with it. It's like the boldness, it's like, now you now you now you're I asked you white assicle to sit down a little bit because you can't get away with everything now.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:08

There you go. And so and that's really what that is. Because at the end of the day, we're expected to suppress our anger, we're expected to act, not act out. How many times have you bit your tongue when you knew you were not wrong?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:20

How many how often do we experience that? And only because they want to justify how they they want to justify the imagination and the person that they created us to be. Yeah. I I there are some of us that I got something to lose. I know I can't just beat anybody up because I can lose my ability to work with kids.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:38

That's my passion, that's my livelihood. I'm not giving that up for anybody. However, am I gonna find a different way to go about it? Absolutely. Now, there are some situations where I'm like, no, nigga, now I'm gonna have to press you. Yeah, they're gonna see the worst side of me.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:51

And the part the craziest part about it was he was doing it like he would do it like in a public, say you'd be in center city, like those police is around. He's gonna so no one's really gonna do anything unless obviously you get come across the right one that's gonna do something. It's like, oh, I ain't got nothing to lose.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:02

Yeah, say, let's be waiting on time, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:04

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:27:05

Yeah, yeah. So that was just kind of like on that of like how like you said, like America sees this, how people think they get away with anything when it comes to black people, that type of thing. So um, but my but but my my final questions leading up as we close out the interview is where do you see the presidency in 2028? Because when um Trump is not a Republican, who's gonna come up out of the Republican side as their leader? And then the Democrats, they we've been I mean the Democrats in general, they've been fighting for the last however many years trying to find a uh a lead candidate to come out of everything. So what do you think that's gonna look like when when Trump's out of office and now 2028's on the docket? What do you think that's gonna look like?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:44

A handsome progressive white man. You think so? I think it's gonna be, yeah, I don't I still don't believe that the world is ready for a black woman. I don't think a woman I don't think the world is I don't think America's ready for a woman, point blank period. It it'll be probably a couple more decades into our lifetime. Um, because the world still doesn't see women as good leaders, right? Um, I think for America, what they value is power, what they value is family, what they value our values, I mean our um strong family values and morals. So I do think that the next person we get is going to be a man, has to be a good-looking man, somebody who is well educated, um, and has to be the perfect storm on to counter what Trump was doing as a person who's still decent, but a person who is willing to push and name the thing out loud. And so I do think like your ideas on foreign affairs are gonna be huge next time. It's gonna be next time, right? Because we've witnessing multiple genocides happen. Um, I think it's gonna be somebody who has to know how to be an equalizer. However, it does not mean that they're compromising their progressive values. And so I do think there are some people who are kind of building some stuff up. I think we see little spaces where Shapiro is trying to be. He's a great speaker. Um I would like to see Wes Moore um try something. I think we might also see um Gavin Newsome attempt something, right? And so I do think it has to be somebody who's charismatic and understands how visibility is very important and is willing to speak out. So I again that doesn't mean that a Shapiro is actually gonna be the number one pick, right? Right, because he could barely talk around it when we were here in Pennsylvania, right? And so um I do think coming up on this next presidency, somebody who was able to actively go against Trump, but also paying attention to the fact that Trump is trying to extend his presidency. Yeah, yeah. So making sure of that. But yeah, I definitely think probably has to be younger, white, charismatic, progressive leaning, willing to speak out against global injustice.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:52

Okay. Um, well, I appreciate you pulling up to the studio. Yeah, coming over to the compound. Um, it's long overdue. Um, before we let you go, one, I want you to give our listeners two books they should read um to help them navigate whatever they're navigating, or something that you would recommend to get them up to speed and educated, and then tell everybody where you can find your coffee, where we can find your social media, what we can expect from you.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, first and foremost, like, thank you, dog, for this conversation. I appreciate you so freaking much. And just like, I'm such a fan of the show. I like it so excited when I get the update, so I can just listen in. Um, but yeah, so right now I'm reading Tanahassi Coach's The Message. So that for me is just talking around the importance of seeing the truth and expressing the truth when we see it and like just knowing what um human decency can look like. Um, and then what am I what else am I reading right now? Um I'm encouraging people to get into fiction. And so I would also um from more of a global aspect, I've been reading Smallly by Eden Mackenzie Goddard, um, a really good friend of mine who released his first book this year. And it gives us so much more insight to the Win Rush scandal mixed into like this love story and how inner generations like experience the world right now. But I think it gives us insight to kind of see like what some of the black British folks are experiencing and the world, but also kind of recognizing like there's this global interconnectedness of anti-blackness that we should all be kind of critiquing. And so I think both of these at the same time give us a space of fiction. So I'm enveloped into this world, but also like the purpose of what we get to do, especially as media practitioners, anybody in content should read Tanahasi's coates, the message as well. Um, but outside of that though, because I think reading for pleasure and reading for information are both important, and um, where you can find me is at Marquise Davon across all social media. Um, M-A-R-Q-U-I-S-E-D-A-V-O-N. I'm the host of Keeping It a Bean podcast. That is coming back in August in full force, which I'm excited for. I need my invite. Come on, and it's oh, yes, sir. Oh, dog, it's on the way. Don't play. Um, but then also another ser a live series that's gonna come out again when due diligence is coming back with me and Balmore, and then also Spill the Beans in partnership with Leroy's Blend and BvP Coffee. Um, follow Leeroy's Blend. So that's my coffee brand that you can buy online for right now. Um, every time you buy a bag of my coffee, you're also donating to an HBCU scholarship fund. Um, yeah, outside of that though, hear me yapping. Follow my subsect, this American Negro. I've been having a really big passion of writing lately, and people have been responding to it. I'm really, really just enjoying that medium overall. So please uh follow Leroy's blend, Marquise Davon, keep it in the bean, and this American Negro.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:32

Well, I appreciate you. I appreciate you pulling up, appreciate the conversation, man. I'm gonna keep following your work and everybody, you know the compound. I know y'all listen in. Make sure y'all follow Marquise. He gives up a lot of good information, has a lot of great conversations. So tap in with them. That's all I got for this episode of the Faces of the Future podcast. It's your boy Mills. Peace.